An Example of How To Make a Possession Based Tactic

[EA]

Background
I see a lot of questions on here about how do you play possession football. So I thought I'd throw in my take on not only how you can do that but utilising the Tactics Creator too.

Team Instructions
Philosophy to Very Fluid. This keeps the mentalities tight together, almost a global mentality.

Creative Freedom to Disciplined. This keeps creative freedom under control, binds the tactic and ensure players follow instructions.

Strategy to Control. Fairly attacking, pushes up the defensive line joining the back 4 to the midfield. It also keeps tempo* at a controlable level.

Passing to Shorter. As you would expect in a possession tactic.

Closing Down to Press More. Your defensive line is pushed on anyway and you want to pressure the opposition and regain the ball.

Tackling to default. Easy is too passive. Hard could work but playing with ten men is no good.

Marking to Zonal. Helps retain shape.

Crossing to default.

Roaming. I prefer to roam more as it should help with passing options.

Passing focus to varied although through the centre will work well with narrow formations.

Manual Adjustments
The idea behind the post is to not manually tweak too many sliders. If you do want to try something to enhance the effect then consider lowering tempo*. There are two reasons why tempo needs to be lowish. One is to ensure passes are accurate and not rushed. The other is equally critical and it is to allow the defence time to correctly set up a high line/zone.

Player Roles and Duties
Carefully distribute all player duties, atk, def, support. What I mean is have a balanced mix of those and use the intelligent roles e.g. deep lying fwds, playmakers, wide mids, wing backs etc. Trequartista is defeinitely recommended (despite lack of closing down) as are a scattering of roles where players 'hold up' the ball. Avoid limited defenders. Use a formation that has a good prescence in the midfield.

If using wide players and passing through the middle give them supporting roles to keep their involvement up.

Complimenting Shouts
Play higher
Play narrow

(These two compact the formation further). Plus...

Retain Possession
Work into Box

(Both ensure possession is not wasted).

You may get even higher passing completion stats and possession by shouting "pass to feet" (this reduces through balls) and/or "take a breather" (reduces tempo and fwd runs) but I purposefully chose to omit them. This is because as has been spotted elsewhere in this thread, possession football can overplay to the point where you keep passing and stop looking for openings.

Play this on small to standard sized pitchs.

Logic Behind The Tactic
To win the possession war you must have the football. To have the ball you must win it from the opposition. A good way of winning the ball back is to implement "pressing" into your tactic. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why the play is squeezed and the team plays as a unit (similar mentalities achieved by v.fluid and controlled creative freedom).

Take great caution in widening the set up as the pressing element will be less efficient. Furthermore, central players may not be given the passing range to spread the ball over a 'wider' team instruction / pitch so in effect they may have less passing options and not more.

The keys therefore are team shape plus depth & spacing between the players; keeping them in a tight knit unit.

Final Thoughts
I haven't provided this with a specific formation, or specific player roles but a tactic could easily be created using this post as a template. Anyway, there isn't a download and perhaps shouldn't be because it’s just a brand of football and is not always the most successful way of playing. But if you have the players you should dominate possession in the majority of games.

[chimp]

I don't use these instructions but I do find I have more possession but my team don't make anything of it. How can I create more from the possession?

[hippoc07]

Nice little guide there will try to give it ago with the best team in the world

Brentford

[Randomlegend]

Originally Posted by England Away

I see a lot of questions on here about how do you play possession football. So I thought I'd throw in my take on not only how you can do that but utilising the Tactics Creator too.

Philosophy to Very Fluid. This keeps the mentalities tight together, almost a global mentality.

Creative Freedom to Disciplined. This keeps creative freedom under control, binds the tactic and ensure players follow instructions.

Strategy to Control. Fairly attacking, pushes up the defensive line joining the back 4 to the midfield. It also keeps tempo at a controlable level.

Passing to Shorter. As you would expect in a possession tactic.

Closing Down to Press More. Your defensive line is pushed on anyway and you want to pressure the opposition and regain the ball.

Tackling to default. Easy is too passive. Hard could work but playing with ten men is no good.

Marking to Zonal. Helps retain shape.

Crossing to default.

Roaming. I prefer to roam more as it should help with passing options.

Carefully distribute all player duties, atk, def, support. What I mean is have a balanced mix of those and use the intelligent roles e.g. deep lying fwds, playmakers, wide mids, wing backs etc. Trequartista is defeinitely recommended. Avoid limited defenders. Use a formation that has a good prescence in the midfield.

Important is to set passing focus to varied.

Finally compliment the tactic with key shouts.

Player higher
Play narrow

(These two compact the formation further). Plus...

Retain Possession
Work into Box

(Both ensure possession is not wasted).

Play this on a standard sized pitch.

Note. I haven't provided this with a specific formation, or specific player roles. It therefore isn't a download and perhaps shouldn't be because its just a brand of football and is not always the most successful way of playing. But if you have the players you should dominate possession in the majority of games.

Can't see anything wrong with any of the logic there.

However....

...you say to use the play narrow shout. Now to me that seems perfectly logical but in real life the teams that actually play possession football tend to play on big pitches and play with width, Barcelona being the archetypal example. This is my understanding anyway, someone correct me if I am wrong.

Now as I said, I understand the logic behind what you say. Perhaps the reason this isn't always adopted for possession based football is because it would result in too cramped a playing space. It would be hard to keep possession if there are 22 players within a small section of he pitch. If possession based football works in FM11 playing narrow and doesn't work playing wide then this is pretty much a redundant point but I just thought it was somewhat interesting.

tl;dr?
Playing narrow but Barca play wide and they play possession football. Why? Which is better?

[Simon.]

Originally Posted by Randomlegend

Can't see anything wrong with any of the logic there.

However....

...you say to use the play narrow shout. Now to me that seems perfectly logical but in real life the teams that actually play possession football tend to play on big pitches and play with width, Barcelona being the archetypal example. This is my understanding anyway, someone correct me if I am wrong.

Now as I said, I understand the logic behind what you say. Perhaps the reason this isn't always adopted for possession based football is because it would result in too cramped a playing space. It would be hard to keep possession if there are 22 players within a small section of he pitch. If possession based football works in FM11 playing narrow and doesn't work playing wide then this is pretty much a redundant point but I just thought it was somewhat interesting.

tl;dr?
Playing narrow but Barca play wide and they play possession football. Why? Which is better?

You're very right in what you are saying, however there is a difference between FM and real life. To get possession football working on FM you need the players to be positioned close together to incorporate the short passing. If the players are too far away from each other the AI cannot find a pass as easy and tends to resort to smashing the ball into the channels, which is obviously not what you want.

That's why England Away has the defensive line pushed up and has encouraged a high pressing game, to condense the pitch as much as possible.

[caswell1986]

Some nice input here and is helpful. I'd probably expand on this and say
•playing possession football requires GOOD players. Playing possession with a team like Wolves against the top 6 is probably going to end in a loss

•Playing home or away is a major factor to my tactic selection (I use a slightly more defensive approach when away or against a better team)

Also an extra point to make would be throw ins and goal kicks. I've got mine set to defender collect (and GK passing to just into the short) and the throw ins set to short with the respective winger set to come short.

However it's a very helpful guide and also gets my vote for a possible Sticky thread if there's any nice moderators listening

[Nick]

Originally Posted by SD

You're very right in what you are saying, however there is a difference between FM and real life. To get possession football working on FM you need the players to be positioned close together to incorporate the short passing. If the players are too far away from each other the AI cannot find a pass as easy and tends to resort to smashing the ball into the channels, which is obviously not what you want.

That's why England Away has the defensive line pushed up and has encouraged a high pressing game, to condense the pitch as much as possible.

I disagree.

For a long time in FM, I have followed the Direct > narrow, Short > wide approach.

At the moment I am playing a possession based 4-2-3-1 in Peru. My tactic relies on us keeping the ball, working the space and stretching the opposition. I play wide and I play quick.

I've also read a lot about people thinking the only way to keep the ball is to play a short / slow passing game.

It really isn't. You'll find it just as possible to keep the ball with a direct approach. Providing your other instructions relate to this.

There are numerous other factors effecting the possibility of keeping the ball, aside from passing.

- Tempo
- Creative freedom
- Mentality
- Width
- Time wasting

[Randomlegend]

Originally Posted by Nick

I disagree.

For a long time in FM, I have followed the Direct > narrow, Short > wide approach.

At the moment I am playing a possession based 4-2-3-1 in Peru. My tactic relies on us keeping the ball, working the space and stretching the opposition. I play wide and I play quick.

I've also read a lot about people thinking the only way to keep the ball is to play a short / slow passing game.

It really isn't. You'll find it just as possible to keep the ball with a direct approach. Providing your other instructions relate to this.

There are numerous other factors effecting the possibility of keeping the ball, aside from passing.

- Tempo
- Creative freedom
- Mentality
- Width
- Time wasting

Any chance you could expand on this a bit. Actually, you might already have done in the thread for your tactic...

*runs to check*

[Nick]

Sure. Which bit?

[Randomlegend]

Originally Posted by Nick

Sure. Which bit?

Well just some of the other factors and the influence they have.

Mentality for example. In real life I don't think anyone could argue Barcelona play with an extremely attacking mentality. However, in my FM experience I often find that an attacking mentality will lead to players not really sticking to the short passing instructions and just hoofing the ball forwards. I would be interested on your views on that.

Also creative freedom. I would be tempted to crank it up since you want all your players moving around finding space, but at the same time it gives them the license to ignore your tactical instructions.

Time wasting is another one. IRL Barcelona (sorry to keep using them but they are the archetypal example) always get the ball done and back into play as quickly as possible. However, I have often read advice that high time wasting is more beneficial in FM for possession based tactics as it means players will hold onto the ball when they need to.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Randomlegend

Well just some of the other factors and the influence they have.

Mentality for example. In real life I don't think anyone could argue Barcelona play with an extremely attacking mentality. However, in my FM experience I often find that an attacking mentality will lead to players not really sticking to the short passing instructions and just hoofing the ball forwards. I would be interested on your views on that.

Also creative freedom. I would be tempted to crank it up since you want all your players moving around finding space, but at the same time it gives them the license to ignore your tactical instructions.

Time wasting is another one. IRL Barcelona (sorry to keep using them but they are the archetypal example) always get the ball done and back into play as quickly as possible. However, I have often read advice that high time wasting is more beneficial in FM for possession based tactics as it means players will hold onto the ball when they need to.

Sorry for the wall of text.

OK, here are my views on how the other factors affect keeping possession:

Tempo: It's meaning is simple. The quicker the tempo, the quicker your team move the ball. Slow it right down and your players will take more touches and more time when on the ball. You'll probably keep possession better, but the opposition will have more time to close you down and harry you into making a mistake.

I link it with time wasting.

Quick tempo > low time wasting. Slow tempo > more time wasting.

Creative Freedom: The higher the creative freedom, the more likely a player is to ignore your instructions and use his stats like creativity and flair. They'll try the more risky option. The good thing about thism is that a moment of magic could unlock a defence. The bad thing about it is that instead of passing the ball simply to someone in a better position, what they try and do doesn't work and you give the ball away.

Mentality: The higher a players mentality, the further up the field he plays and the more risky passes he plays. A player with a maxed out attacking mentality will look to pass the ball forwards at every opportunity. Sometimes a forward pass isn't going to be the best option. If he only looks forward he run a greater chance of giving the ball away.

Width: The narrower a formation, the more congested the middle of the pitch is going to be. The more congested the middle of the pitch is, the less passing options you have. The less passing options you have, the less likely you are to keep possession of the ball.

Barcelona play possession football and use every bit of the Camp Nou pitch. Just because you play wide, doesn't mean that short passes don't exist.

The size of the pitch doesn't dictate the length of the pass. The recieving players movement does.

Time Wasting: As I say, linked with tempo.

[Simon.]

Originally Posted by Nick

Mentality: The higher a players mentality, the further up the field he plays and the more risky passes he plays. A player with a maxed out attacking mentality will look to pass the ball forwards at every opportunity. Sometimes a forward pass isn't going to be the best option. If he only looks forward he run a greater chance of giving the ball away.

I'm going to highlight this, because mentality has always been something that completely baffles me.

Going from what you have said, Nick, would you have your central midfield players (the ones you want keeping the ball) on a low mentality and low creative freedom? If so, how low?

I'm currently in the process of making a tactic that is very possession based and it is hard to find the right balance between lots of possession and chance creation. We're keeping the ball well yet, we don't create many chances at all, because the players are looking for the simple ball all the time.

Do you tend to set up with one/two players with a higher mentality and freedom and trust in them to create chances for you?

[andrewjames128]

The old English saying that possession is nine tenths of the law applys to Football manager I think ,

So many games I have had by far the greater amount of possesion and ended up losing , then in other games had a possesion rate as low as 30% and won 3-0

If anyone saw Swansea City play under Paulo Souza will realise that having the ball for 90 mins of a match does not mean your going to win the game

Quite possibly the worst football I have ever witnessed was under that guy

We never passed the ball over the half way line, how we were 1 point away from the playoffs at the end of the season when we scored less goals than the team that finished bottom is a mystery to me.

Its a fine line you must tread to get the correct balance between possesion football and attacking prowess in FM and unfortunatly my size 9 boots tramples all over it

Tactic side of FM baffles me on times...

[Nick]

I'm currently in the process of making a tactic that is very possession based and it is hard to find the right balance between lots of possession and chance creation. We're keeping the ball well yet, we don't create many chances at all, because the players are looking for the simple ball all the time.

I'll answer this first, as the answer should lead on to the next quote.

This is something that I'm experiencing too. I'm experiencing it, because that's what I'm deliberately trying to do.

Due to the fact that you want to keep the ball, work the space and wait for a chance to slice open the opposition, I think chances will be limited. That's not to say that you can create a lot of chances per game, you can. They'll just be more limited than if you were getting the ball forwards as quickly as possible.

I'd rather keep the ball, that try and create chance that isn't there to be created and then have to defend.

Originally Posted by SD

Going from what you have said, Nick, would you have your central midfield players (the ones you want keeping the ball) on a low mentality and low creative freedom? If so, how low?

In my tactic, both midfielders have 2 different roles. They:

a) Need to act as cover for the back four when we're defending

but

b) act as the link between the defence and the attacking players.

They have to be always looking for the ball in an attempt to keep possession until an attacking player is in a good position.

As far as mentality goes, they are both on normal (as in dead centre) mentality. Their creative freedom is very low (2) and their passing is 2 clicks above short. This allows them to pass a bit longer if need be, but their creative freedom limits it from being too often.

Both midfielders have an 89% and 87% pass completion rate and complete 60-80 passes per game. For a mid-level player, that's very good and they do exactly what I want.

Do you tend to set up with one/two players with a higher mentality and freedom and trust in them to create chances for you?

My AML, AMR and AMC have a higher mentality (not by much, though). They are also the only players with any real creative freedom.

[LHarvey235]

It seems mentality is either a mis-leading title, or I've misunderstood the word as it was intended.

Here's me with my Crewe team, league two - very little ability, thinking "Well I want to retain possession but I want to push forward as well." So by upping the mentality thinking all I'm doing is having my defensive line passing the ball around all positioned closer to the half-way line rather than the eighteen yard line, what I've done in fact is try and tell the team to go out with a short, slow passing game but always trying to get the ball forward - sheerly by upping players mentality?

Simialrly by CM, Lee Bell, who I want to anchor the centre of the park had a very low mentality, whereas his partner, Ashley Westwood, had a high mentality. So whats, theoretically, happening is Bell will get the ball and look to play a more conservative, defensive pass - while his fellow CM gallops downfield.

Similarly when Westwood gets the ball he's charging forward looking to move the ball towards goal whereas Bell is dropping back due to his mentality?

It would make sense that my performances improved, somewhat, when I brought their mentality closer to the middle. Bell's being increased and Westwood's being decreased. That would probably lend some credibility to the theory that it's more about what they intend to do with the ball than where they are positioned on the pitch as such - as I had thought it was.

I'll make sure to keep that in mind and tweak some more when I get home and get on the game. It does seem to explain a lot of my problems though. Too much I think I look at my wingers and think "well i want them to attack" so throw their mentality up too high without thinking HOW they're going to receive the ball and instead thinking entirely what they'll do WHEN they receive the ball.

I think that made sense.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by LHarvey235

Here's me with my Crewe team, league two - very little ability, thinking "Well I want to retain possession but I want to push forward as well." So by upping the mentality thinking all I'm doing is having my defensive line passing the ball around all positioned closer to the half-way line rather than the eighteen yard line, what I've done in fact is try and tell the team to go out with a short, slow passing game but always trying to get the ball forward - sheerly by upping players mentality?

By upping your defenders mentality, you've asked them to play further forward, but also look to play the ball forward more. This of course, is linked to defensive line as well.

Out of interest, what mentality are your defenders on?

Simialrly by CM, Lee Bell, who I want to anchor the centre of the park had a very low mentality, whereas his partner, Ashley Westwood, had a high mentality. So whats, theoretically, happening is Bell will get the ball and look to play a more conservative, defensive pass - while his fellow CM gallops downfield.

What you should see is your midfield pair staggered. One will have a starting position further up the pitch, one will be deeper. Almost forming a diamond, if their mentalities are that far apart.

I'll make sure to keep that in mind and tweak some more when I get home and get on the game. It does seem to explain a lot of my problems though. Too much I think I look at my wingers and think "well i want them to attack" so throw their mentality up too high without thinking HOW they're going to receive the ball and instead thinking entirely what they'll do WHEN they receive the ball.

This is very important. If they are too far forward in relation to the rest of your teams passing style, it's counter-productive.

[LHarvey235]

Defenders: Like I say I'm at work so I don't have access to FM right now, and I was playing around with tactics a lot last night tweaking here and there (although I've picked up some new information from this thread alone so I look forward to getting that implemented) - What I recall is the following, and I may too have diagnosed some of my problems but feel free to keep helping me.

I often set my defenders mentality quite low, as my understanding of mentality had me thinking that if it was high I'd see my rather slow and somewhat inept centre backs trying Rio Ferdinand-esque 360 spins into the opposing half.

What I now realise is that with them having such a low mentality, and only really one of my four midfielders (Lee Bell as previously mentioned) having a low mentality and the other three all charging off down field this severly limits their options to pass to. For example with my short passing the centre back only really has two defenders either side to him to pass to or the centre midfielder who is dropping back slightly.

Even worse, should my right back (Matt Tootle) get the ball with a defensive mentality he's got no one to the right of him (off the pitch), the right midfielder (Byron Moore) is probably charging off down field because his mentality is ramped too high up and the only midfielder with a defensive mentality is Lee Bell who operates the LCM spot so is maybe a bit far away from him. Leaving him with only really one option, the centre back alongside him.

More so, a high(ish) defensive line combined with these lack of options and a slow tempo is pretty much just inviting the opposing strikers, midfielders and wingers to close me down and force me into a mistake. This would go someway to explaining my lack of possession, we have no one to pass to - so we can't really keep the ball. And this was me thinking I'd created a nice, slow, ball retaining formation when I've done absolutely anything but.

Midfielders: Yes, I was aiming to create a diamond, and definitely think I would benefit from a defensive minded centre midfielder and a more attack minded midfielder. However by setting my prospective defensive minded centre midfielder so negative like I did, and the other so attacking we almost create these polar opposites whereby Bell (the defensive midfielder) is too far apart from Westwood to really link up well, the gap between the two is just too stretched combined with the opposition midfield closing him down.

Furthermore my wingers are probably too attack minded to really bring themselves into the game. What I should really do is bring their mentality closer to the middle and allow them to pick the ball up first, and then run forward with the ball using those settings to utilise their attacking intent.

It's starting to make sense, that when I read all this information on here and then think back to what was going wrong with my games yesterday, I'm realising why it actually happened now and realising how (I think) I can remedy the problems.

[ramsfan]

I've been playing with extremely wide width and short passing recently, and found that I am dominating possession in the majority of games. I can see how having the players close together can result in them being able to pass to one another easier, but I think it's important to use the whole pitch so your players have more space. Playing wider opens up more space in the middle of the pitch, allowing the central players extra room to move around in, which generates ample opportunities to play triangles and generally keep hold of the ball for longer.

[Randomlegend]

What do you do in terms of closing down Nick? High throughout the team or something different? Also, roaming from position.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Randomlegend

What do you do in terms of closing down Nick? High throughout the team or something different? Also, roaming from position.

GK: own area (5)

DR: own half (12)
DL: own half (12)
DC: own half (8)
DC: own half (8)

CM: own half (11)
CM: own half (11)

AMR: whole pitch (15)
AML: own half (15)
AMC: own half (10)

ST: whole pitch (17)

As you can see, we close down quite high up the pitch (I push the defensive line up too). Despite the reasonably high closing down for the CM's, the low creative freedom means they don't move too far from their original positions.

No-one roams. I'll let creative freedom and forward runs dictate where my players go. I want my team to retain their shape.

[Simon.]

Would it be more beneficial to passing football with a global mentality then?

[Nick]

Originally Posted by SD

Would it be more beneficial to passing football with a global mentality then?

I don't like global mentalities. I just haven't been able to make anything successful with it since about FM08.

[caswell1986]

Interesting stuff ... Ive normally assosiated playing width with defensiveness .. If I'm playing a team who have amazing attacking options (united,Barca etc) I normally play quite narrow to try and limit the space. I normally manage to walk away with a draw or the occasional stolen goal.
On the flip side I play wider when I'm expecting a team to play defensively to try and force opposition players out of position.

I'm having difficulty making separate home and away tactics work and normally just adjust depending on the team I'm playing.

The possession football is working well however I'm still tweaking the balance of possession and goal creations (this isn't helped when Saha seems to miss a barn door shot), so much so Beckford is my top scorer in the poacher role (surprisingly).

[EA]

As per my opening post, possession passing is best achieved with a global mentalities approach. I used the Very Fluid philosophy deliberately as if you look under the hood you will see that only a couple of roles will stray (ever so slightly) away from global mentals.

The whole point is about depth & spacing between the players and keeping them in a tight knit unit. If you vary the player mentalities too much it begins to affect the formation shape and accordingly you need to start micro managing everyone's passing slider. Before you know it you will have created a mess and be further away from achieveing possession football and not closer.

I never said increased width doesn't work or that you wouldn't have good passing stats but to maximise "possession" I stand completely by my original post.

You may get even higher passing completion stats and possession by shouting "pass to feet" (this reduces through balls) and/or "take a breather" (reduces tempo and fwd runs) but I purposefully chose to omit them. This is because as has been spotted elsewhere in this thread, possession football can overplay to the point where you keep passing and stop looking for openings, for that reason beware of using "pass to feet" and "take a breather" for any length of time. That's not to say they aren't useful when defending a lead or killing a game.

The opposite shout of pass to feet which is "pass into space" may have the effect of creating a few more chances but will probably lessen the possession percentage a tad.

[Nick]

Originally Posted by England Away

As per my opening post, possession passing is best achieved with a global mentalities approach.

This attitude is completely wrong. You can't just make brash comments like that. I don't play with global mentalities and have 60% possession in each game.

There is no "best" way and it isn't as simple as using global mentalities and you'll keep the ball.

The whole point is about depth & spacing between the players and keeping them in a tight knit unit. If you vary the player mentalities too much it begins to affect the formation shape and accordingly you need to start micro managing everyone's passing slider. Before you know it you will have created a mess and be further away from achieveing possession football and not closer.

Whilst I agree with keeping your side as a unit, having them 'staggered' is equally as effective. Providing the other sliders compliment the mentalties.

I have my defenders and attacking midfielders on different mentalities deliberately to create angles for passes.

[barkermush]

Originally Posted by Randomlegend

Any chance you could expand on this a bit. Actually, you might already have done in the thread for your tactic...

*runs to check*

Hi.
Where about's is Nicks tactic? He seems to speak sense in regards of FM and keeping possession.

I've had a look for the thread in the FM11 tactics forum, but can't find any threads started by Nick... cheers.

[Shrewnaldo]

Have a look at post #621 in this thread. It isn't available for download but is described in more detail there.

[barkermush]

Originally Posted by Shrewnaldo

Have a look at post #621 in this thread. It isn't available for download but is described in more detail there.

I'll have a look, thanks.

[EA]

I don't lay claim that this is the only way to play the game, far from it. Everyone has their view and why not ( Nick).

My intention is merely to explain how I would go about achieving a possession orientated style. In my experience you can sometimes achieve over 90% passing completion success. Maybe though you use the ideas to form a strategy within a match...e.g. maybe to see a game home in which you are leading.

Anyway I am pleased this creates debate but hopefully not too much argument .

And I hope that using the modern interface i.e. tactics creator + shouts and without the need to detail slider tweaking is also a user friendly interpretation.

[barkermush]

After using the tips and information from Nick on this thread and the other, i've made my own 4-5-1 possession style tactic and it's actually producing the football i want. (60+ possession in most games).

I was giving my players too much closing down and creative freedom before, so thanks.

I have one question, my right winger keeps getting inbehind the defense and runs to the edge of the box, with my striker free in the box but instead of squaring the ball to him he keeps going for goal.

--------goal---------

----my striker-------oppostion defender---my winger

He keeps shooting well wide instead of passing to my striker in lots of free space.

Here's his set up, not sure if it's because of the creative freedom i've given him?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[GunnerJames]

I am playing a 4231 formation with Arsenal. I have Wilshire as my deep-lying playmaker and Song as my Ball Winning Midfielder both seeting normal mentalities in the centre of the slider and Fabregas has my Advance Playamker with his position in the AMC slot behind the main striker.

I want Fabregas to link up with the two center midfielders and wingers and I just wanted to ask what mentality should I give to Fabergas. Also what would be the best mentalities for the AML/AMR and strikers to ensure that they link up with other memebers of the team.

I have been using Nick's advice on passing and creative freedom for the midfielder which advised a short passing setting 2 for the midfielders and also a low creative freedom. I tried the settings last night and it seems to work quite well for my Central Midfielders. I now want to adopt this idea to the following areas of the team. I was wondering what passing settings and creative freedom would be ideal for the following

Wing Backs
Centre Backs
AML
AMC - advance playmaker/ fabergas/nasri
AMR inside forwards/advance playmaker on the wings
Strikers - Deep Lying Forward

If you guys can give me the numbers for the sliders that would be great

Look forward to the feedback and sorry about the confusing post I just want to get as much info from the experts as possible.

[Markyboy]

England Away, you are a star!

I had taken 1 point from the last six games, including three defeats in the last three games and could not pass the ball for love nor money. Chances were few and far between and my team was all over the place (despite having a good start to the season).

By keeping my individual settings and adopting the global settings you set out in your first post, I won two games in a row (dominating both) and narrow lost to Liverpool (away) due to some poor finishing on my part (thanks Carlton!) and a decent strike for them.

Top notch thread!

[Eazy-Duz-It]

Originally Posted by barkermush

After using the tips and information from Nick on this thread and the other, i've made my own 4-5-1 possession style tactic and it's actually producing the football i want. (60+ possession in most games).

I was giving my players too much closing down and creative freedom before, so thanks.

I have one question, my right winger keeps getting inbehind the defense and runs to the edge of the box, with my striker free in the box but instead of squaring the ball to him he keeps going for goal.

--------goal---------

----my striker-------oppostion defender---my winger

He keeps shooting well wide instead of passing to my striker in lots of free space.

Here's his set up, not sure if it's because of the creative freedom i've given him?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

off-topic, but what skin is that?

[barkermush]

Originally Posted by Eazy-Duz-It

off-topic, but what skin is that?

It's the Galaxy Skin.

[k0la]

Thanks a lot for all the sound advice in this thread Nick, helped me put together a good tactic.

I'm in npower league 2 atm, and looking for promotion this year. I've played a very direct game in the two seasons i've played so far, but wanted to have a more possesion style tactic for games against weaker opponents this season. Went on holiday for 19 games, won 11, 3 draws, 5 losses. All the point losses except one was away, so I got what I wanted, a possesion/domination tactic for home games

I'll probably try to make a much more defensive possesion tactic too. Was thinking about just moving everybody further back (two dm's), any pointers?

I'm starting to get a good grip on making tactics, and check if they work/ do what i wanted. But I'm not so sure how to tweak, to find the differences with just moving the sliders one point left or right and such. What do you guys do to test?

Same team for several friendly matches like in that tactic challenge thread? Cause then I'd imagine you get a tactic that is good against that specific team, but not necessarily the best against all teams.

Holiday trough half a season? Cause then I'm not really sure if you can tell the difference?

[scutzon]

Mentality has always baffled me since 3-4 editions of FMs ago. Now that it has been mentioned here, I just want to ask: Nick you mentioned that mentality relates with how high the player plays up the pitch, and whether he will look for the forward or back pass. Does this not contradict a bit for defenders? Say I am managing a low level side and want my defenders to stay deep and I don't want my team playing in defence, so I want my defenders to always looks to pass the ball forward. How do I go about achieving this mentality wise?

[Mr White]

I don't think you should wory about your defenders passing backwards to often if you set them on a defensive mentality. They'll probably will limit themselves to easy passes and kicking the ball into the stands.

If you want your defence to stay deep you can alter that with a slider (defend deep-push up) in the team tactics.

Hope this helps.

[EA]

I feel I should point out this is slightly wandering off topic in the last couple of posts.

Be very careful about lowering defender’s mentalities in isolation to other players or trying to drop the D-Line off which may create a disconnect with the midfield. Either of these actions could negatively impact ‘possession’.

[Las7]

The tactic(Ghost) is insane in terms of possession. It was lifted of another forum, but seriously this seems broken to me.

Spoiler:

Seriously I've just used it in a few matches - my team has never dominated top teams like this. Sure we create a few more chances but never dominate quite like this in the latter stages of the CL.

[moley]

Anychance of a link to that tactic, I want to see how it was done in order to get some ideas for my tactic i want next season. Based around a dominating midfield retaining the ball.

[Las7]

Originally Posted by moley

Anychance of a link to that tactic, I want to see how it was done in order to get some ideas for my tactic i want next season. Based around a dominating midfield retaining the ball.

I send you a PM since I got this off FM-Base.

[Pineapple Hero]

Originally Posted by Nick

OK, here are my views on how the other factors affect keeping possession:

Tempo: It's meaning is simple. The quicker the tempo, the quicker your team move the ball. Slow it right down and your players will take more touches and more time when on the ball. You'll probably keep possession better, but the opposition will have more time to close you down and harry you into making a mistake.

I link it with time wasting.

Quick tempo > low time wasting. Slow tempo > more time wasting.

Creative Freedom: The higher the creative freedom, the more likely a player is to ignore your instructions and use his stats like creativity and flair. They'll try the more risky option. The good thing about thism is that a moment of magic could unlock a defence. The bad thing about it is that instead of passing the ball simply to someone in a better position, what they try and do doesn't work and you give the ball away.

Mentality: The higher a players mentality, the further up the field he plays and the more risky passes he plays. A player with a maxed out attacking mentality will look to pass the ball forwards at every opportunity. Sometimes a forward pass isn't going to be the best option. If he only looks forward he run a greater chance of giving the ball away.

Width: The narrower a formation, the more congested the middle of the pitch is going to be. The more congested the middle of the pitch is, the less passing options you have. The less passing options you have, the less likely you are to keep possession of the ball.

Barcelona play possession football and use every bit of the Camp Nou pitch. Just because you play wide, doesn't mean that short passes don't exist.

The size of the pitch doesn't dictate the length of the pass. The recieving players movement does.

Time Wasting: As I say, linked with tempo.

While I found this very informative, at the same time it has me a little bit confused. For example if you have the players mentalities on attacking but creative freedom on low how does this relate to how they pass the ball around, does it mean that they play high up the pitch and get the ball in the final third but mainly look for the sensible pass. It sounds like if you want to play a posession game its best to have the creative freedom of all the players on low so that they stick to your instructions and play as a team. Also I have another question, if you have manually adjusted creative freedom and mentality of all the players how does this relate to team intructions? If you have team creative freedom on high but have all the player creative freedoms on low how does this affect the way the team plays? Am I right in assuming that when you edit player creative freedom it simply relates to how much a player strays away from the team instructions?

[EA]

Hi. In effect you are asking this question of Nick. By and large I agree with some of what he posted but differ on width, passing and maybe tempo.

To win the possession war you must have the football. To have the ball you must win it from the opposition. A good way of winning the ball back is to implement "pressing" into your tactic. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why in my version the play is squeezed and the team plays as a unit (similiar mentalities and controlled creative freedom).

So in summary, the wider version you refer to in your link will press less efficiently. Furthermore (picking up on that particular quote) central players may not be given the passing range to spread the ball over a 'wider' team instruction / pitch so in effect they may have less passing options and not more.

I'm not sure if this completely answers your question but it maybe goes a little way into explaining some of the differences that arose in the thread but weren't countered or exaplined by me at the time. I know whose advice I would follow anyway .

[Forza]

Originally Posted by England Away

To win the possession war you must have the football. To have the ball you must win it from the opposition. A good way of winning the ball back is to implement "pressing" into your tactic. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why in my version the play is squeezed and the team plays as a unit (similiar mentalities and controlled creative freedom).

So in summary, the wider version you refer to in your link will press less efficiently. Furthermore (picking up on that particular quote) central players may not be given the passing range to spread the ball over a 'wider' team instruction / pitch so in effect they may have less passing options and not more.

I completely agree with all of this. The trick though is to strike a balance between keeping a compact team whilst pressing high enough up the park to win back possession quickly and not leaving gaping space behind the defence.

In all honesty I have completely switched from winger based tactics on this version purely because I like keeping a compact shape and playing short sharp intricate passes through the centre of the pitch.

It's important to have your groundsman produce the smallest possible pitch at the start of the season as well to deny the opposition as much space as possible on the wings.

If you have time as well read my thread on the importance of depth which should help you to ensure plenty of passing options with the ability to press effectively as well.

[fred0912]

Originally Posted by England Away

I see a lot of questions on here about how do you play possession football. So I thought I'd throw in my take on not only how you can do that but utilising the Tactics Creator too.

Philosophy to Very Fluid. This keeps the mentalities tight together, almost a global mentality.

Creative Freedom to Disciplined. This keeps creative freedom under control, binds the tactic and ensure players follow instructions.

Strategy to Control. Fairly attacking, pushes up the defensive line joining the back 4 to the midfield. It also keeps tempo at a controlable level.

Passing to Shorter. As you would expect in a possession tactic.

Closing Down to Press More. Your defensive line is pushed on anyway and you want to pressure the opposition and regain the ball.

Tackling to default. Easy is too passive. Hard could work but playing with ten men is no good.

Marking to Zonal. Helps retain shape.

Crossing to default.

Roaming. I prefer to roam more as it should help with passing options.

Carefully distribute all player duties, atk, def, support. What I mean is have a balanced mix of those and use the intelligent roles e.g. deep lying fwds, playmakers, wide mids, wing backs etc. Trequartista is defeinitely recommended. Avoid limited defenders. Use a formation that has a good prescence in the midfield.

Important is to set passing focus to varied.

Finally compliment the tactic with key shouts.

Player higher
Play narrow

(These two compact the formation further). Plus...

Retain Possession
Work into Box

(Both ensure possession is not wasted).

Play this on a standard sized pitch.

Note. I haven't provided this with a specific formation, or specific player roles. It therefore isn't a download and perhaps shouldn't be because its just a brand of football and is not always the most successful way of playing. But if you have the players you should dominate possession in the majority of games.

Fantastic advice England Away!
Really appreciate it and it has helped me play the style of football I love with AS Roma.
However I have tried for a while now creating a more defensive strategy for those final 10 minutes where I want to hold on to a lead or when playing against a stronger side. No luck however!
Do you have any advice to share regarding this?
Thanks again!

[Brewtality]

Originally Posted by Randomlegend

tl;dr?
Playing narrow but Barca play wide and they play possession football. Why? Which is better?

I haven't read all the replies, so someone may already have answered this, but;

Barcelona play quite narrow on a wide pitch, sort of. By that I mean that the players that several players position themselves in good positions quite close to the teammate in possession, but they also keep one or two players wide on the opposite side to stretch out the opponents team enough to create space.

And if the opponents don't cover the wide players properly, they use them with a through pass.

When Barca is in possession on the left side, everyone but the left wing and left back is quite close to the ball. When they have the ball on the right side of the pitch, it's the left wing and left back that keeps width.

You can achieve that in FM 2011 by playing narrow-ish (7-9), but tell your wide players to hug the line. In order to get your central players to take advantage of the huge space these players often get, is to either give them creative freedom, or keep the individual passing at a notch or two into "Mixed". (7-8) Which translates into something like "favor short passing, but do the occasional long pass when the opportunity arise".

Another note, contrary to popular belief, Barcelona does not offer much creative freedom for their players, Messi got freedom of course, and Iniesta too sometimes. But other than that, they are kept on a strict tactical plan when they face formidable opponents.

[EA]

Guys, I never expected this to become a stickied guide with quite so many views. I hope the mods don't mind but with the release of FM12 I have tidied the OP and added a couple of comments which were picked up in subsequent posts. The principles behind this should hold good with any version of the game.

Cheers, EA.

[Kyuss]

I've read through this thread a couple of times, but it's now very long so forgive me if this was mentioned already.

I've always adhered to the idea that to keep possession you play wide to create more space and so can keep the ball easier with more passing options.

However, with regards to 'pressing' there is certainly merit in keep things tight and narrow. Lose the ball and you close down their own options and win the ball back higher up the pitch. The possession part then comes in having options available behind you to recycle the ball more open areas, with midfielders having a much more defensive mentality, staying patient. The old mantra of compress the space when you don't have the ball and stretch play when you do. Trying to press when the game is played with width can be suicidal, with players taking too long to close the opponent down.

[Shrewnaldo]

Originally Posted by England Away

Guys, I never expected this to become a stickied guide with quite so many views. I hope the mods don't mind but with the release of FM12 I have tidied the OP and added a couple of comments which were picked up in subsequent posts. The principles behind this should hold good with any version of the game.

Cheers, EA.

No problem, EA.

I actually added it to the useful threads sticky last year, you must just have missed it. I like to keep all the good, guide stuff somewhere handy for people to find rather than trawling through pages of other general threads.

[EA]

Originally Posted by Kyuss

I've always adhered to the idea that to keep possession you play wide to create more space and so can keep the ball easier with more passing options.

However, with regards to 'pressing' there is certainly merit in keep things tight and narrow.

The old mantra of compress the space when you don't have the ball and stretch play when you do. Trying to press when the game is played with width can be suicidal, with players taking too long to close the opponent down.

Hi Kyuss. It is almost impossible to disconnect winning the ball back quickly and often from dominating possession. It is also much harder to pass a ball accurately and consistently over 50 yards than it is 5 yards. Plus as you mention, trying to press without compacting the formation can leave gaps and easy get out balls for the oppostion.

So you kind of raise a point but then negate it yourself.

Incidentally there is quite a lot of literature and theory on possession football, total football, tiki-tika, Ajax, Saachi, pressing, Barcelona etc etc. I don't believe I'm really contradicting anything in this Thread/OP that isn't proven football theory, I'm merely giving it a generic FM interpretation.